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    TranceLosAngeles
    Joined: Jul 25, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-05 17:41
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    I've discovered that getting top 5 on Google is not enough and that our competition who has a very poor google ranking website has a very high ranking in addwords which in turn gets them on aol and on top of google. So our struggle is now addwords...

    I've heard that if you up your daily bid budget for addwords that it might help but have found out it seems to have no effect.

    It seems to me the adds that have been up their longer rank better (well not last at least)

    Does anyone have any conclusive thoughts on addwords and how to rank well on there? Thank you in advance.





    TranceLosAngeles
    Joined: Jul 25, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-05 20:15
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    Darn thats what I thought well it looks like Im in need of some great copy editors.
    Thanks for the tip =]



    forge
    Joined: Oct 30, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-05 20:30
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    I might be wrong but I think adwords positions are also determined on how popular your link is. In other words the more people click on it the higher the results.

    I also think that if your site is doing poorly they will drop youy and send you an email to change your keywords.



    OAC
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-05 20:58
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    "also determined on how popular your link is"

    That is precisely what I was referring to in my post. I agree.



    Logan
    Joined: Aug 14, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-05 21:59
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    Although meant for Premium advertisers, I have found the following page very helpful regarding a step by step process for writing good ad copy within AdWords.
    http://www.google.com/ads/tips.html

    All tips are valid and they work pretty good as a general approach.



    deadhead666
    Joined: Nov 05, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-06 18:03
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    The example of "TENNIS BALLS - Best Deals on All Tennis Equipment HERE!" seems to break Google's own rule of no superlatives. They've never allowed me to use "best" in an ad anyway.



    nitro
    Joined: Nov 06, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-06 09:58
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    It is true about the click through rate:

    Basically if your ad is getting a clickthrough rate of 5% and you have bidded $0.10 the effective value of your ad is 5*.1=0.5
    So will be shown above an ad with a clickthrough rate of 2% paying $0.20 and an effective value of 2*.2=0.4

    I hope this makes sense.
    This is why GOOD COPY is essential as are RELEVANT keywords. Get these 2 right and you are laughing.

    TIP: Bid reasonably high to begin with to get good visibility on the page this will give you a good clickthrough rate if your copy is good. Then throttle back the spend and you will remain high but save money.



    TranceLosAngeles
    Joined: Jul 25, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-06 17:15
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    Nitro when you say tip high what do you mean?

    I set our daily budget to the max knowing that we would never reach that should I be setting something else higher?

    Do they list new adds high at first to give em a fair shot?

    Another question:

    I have 4 adds running some with higher pop rates than others should I just keep the 1 leader and drop the rest? Seems every time I come up with a new add its like starting from scratch.


    Help

    On a side note I bought a book called
    "net words" by nick Usborne which has some great ideas anyone else check this book out?




    nitro
    Joined: Nov 06, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-06 17:46
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    You are right to set the total spend high as this means you will be considered for all traffic. If you reach your daily budget then your ad will not be shown.

    If you set your keyword bid high to begin with then you will be very visible is what I meant in the tip.

    I have lots of campaigns running with click through rate as high as 20% on competitive phrases which I now only pay $0.05 for clickthroughs. When I started the campaign i paid $0.30 so I was placed in the top #3 ads as the click through % rises you reduce the amount you are paying. For a new add to come in above me for this phrase they will have to pay like $1.00 per click now.

    20% is really high for click through though!!!

    I average about 3-4% but if you are getting more that 1% that is pretty cool especially when you are getting used to adwords.
    I hope this helps.



    TranceLosAngeles
    Joined: Jul 25, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-07 05:52
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    Thanks Nitro, you have given me much to think about.

    I bid on so many different key words so I can not always get the keyword in the title of the add. I thought google might put alike adds with alike search queries but it just randomly throws up my diff adds at diff times.

    I was thinking of just creating a diff campaign for each keyword. In this way I could make sure for all keywords the title of my add contained the keyword searched for. Anything for or against me doing this?

    The competition is kicking my tail and yes they have some great copy and yet my site in the natural listings is #2 way over their listings. I've worked so hard to get number 2 just to be beaten in the add words category *sigh.

    I have to make a come back and be more competitive on add words as well.

    Thanks to any and all ideas.



    TracSilver
    Joined: Jun 26, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-07 02:20
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    I do not understand this thread. I have been using Adwords and it seems your placement is completely based on bid amount. If I bid higher, I get higher. Bid lower, I drop in placement. And this is even on terms with 10-12% clickthrough rates. How long do you have to have been using adwords for this click-through "popularity" thing to kick in and allow you to drop your bid?



    Logan
    Joined: Aug 14, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-07 02:27
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    I think it is based on the past 100 exposures of the ad ... or something like that ... I'm not sure on the actual number. But it kicks in relatively quickly and does play a role. If everyones ctr is nearly the same, perhaps it is not noticeable?




    arjan
    Joined: Apr 30, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-07 20:04
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    nitro

    please explain more about the "trottle back"?



    TranceLosAngeles
    Joined: Jul 25, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-07 22:34
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    The answer is out there somewhere. Even with addwords google will not reveal its secrets. I noticed they allow exclamations in the title now so I will try and use that to spice up their appeal!



    nitro
    Joined: Nov 06, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-09 21:46
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    Ok When I say throttle back what i mean is that if you set your max bid high to begin with you appear top and if you have good copy then your clickthrough rate will go up. You can then reduce the max bid and will be able to stay high yet pay less for the same number of clickthroughs because the relevancy of your ad according to formula [previous post] is higher and will remain well placed regardless of what you set max clickthrough at.



    amandasmith
    Joined: Nov 04, 2002
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    Posted: 2002-Nov-10 12:02
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    TracSilver, I believe that your observations are correct.

    For our nonprofit organization (and there are many using AdWords), I've had to bid a minimum of .25 with a $10.00 per day limit to keep AdWords from suspending our account because of the low click-through rate. I changed nothing EXCEPT for increasing our bid rate and daily limit.

    However, I think that AdWords is powerful and it HAS driven a tremendous amount of traffic to our site. Really.


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