excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2007-Mar-01 16:08
spend more time questioning your techniques than providing information to assist you in making their project successful?
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Dinkar
Staff
Joined: Aug 12, 2001
# Posts: 4391
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Posted: 2007-Mar-01 16:13
I answered his all questions to make him happy till the ending date of the contract then never renew it 
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2007-Mar-01 16:16
ahhh... the beauty of a contract
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2007-Mar-01 18:02
spend more time questioning your techniques
Fire the client. 
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 05:10
I let them know up front that I know the Internet but they know more about their business than anyone else.
They know more about "bed knob spindles" than anyone else. Its my job to present it to the public.
That gets them warmed up. Then I ask, "What exactly makes your 'bed knob spindles' better than the ones from Texas?"
Suddenly I have 6 paragraphs of content I can work with and Optimize.
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Hampstead
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 2015
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 08:52
I assure them that the techniques being used are ethical and they don't need to worry about any black hat techniques being used.
That is usually enough.
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1462
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 13:23
edit - wrong tab 
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10437
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 14:43
I am glad this topic got bumped... there was a hilarious post about this very topic just a few days ago... [link]
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 15:41
Thanks for sharing the 'Web Guy' blog posting.
Every company has a 'web guy', and I'm currently working my way through one of those situations right now.
I have a potential client with a current 'web guy'.
The web site is a total failure. You know the site, the title tag is "welcome to my site" on every page of the site.
Ha Ha... and so many other issues. So, they bring me in to fix it.
This client also has a board of advisors/directors who approved the current site and need to approve me.
So, they told me to send them 10 websites that they could review to see my work.
I sent them nothing, it would be a waste of my time.
The client asked me why.
I asked him, "Are these the same people that approved your current site and your 'web guy'?".
Their reply: "Yes! They think the current site looks fantastic and they love the 'web guy'. They just don't understand why no one uses the site, and it can't be found on the search engines."
My reply: "I will not be sending the links to my sites for your people to review as they are not qualified."
Reply: "WHAAATT?"
My reply: "Did they not approve the web guy and the current site?"
Reply: "Yes."
My reply: "Isn't the current site which they approved a failure? ..."
Reply: "Yes."
My reply: "... Then they are not qualified because they don't know what to look for. You need to rethink your position and call me when you're ready to move forward. If they were qualified they would not have approve your current site or your 'web guy'."
"See Ya!"
Two months pass, and I get a call:
"Can you make a list of what needs to be done to fix the site?"
My reply: "No, you will take the list and present it to the 'web guy' who will say I am wrong. He will do this because he needs to protect himself and his own limited knowledge base."
"He will not use it to learn, and I am not your educator. If you believe I can provide you with a site analysis, than you can believe I can do the work."
"Have you ever heard the term 'You don't know what you don't know!'?"
"That's your 'web guy'."
"Well, then why does he only get $20.00 an hour and you get 3 to 4 times that?"
"... because I know what he doesn't know... ha ha ha."
"Bye."
[ Message was edited by: JimBot 02/26/2008 08:31 am ... Reason: Fixed post layout. ]
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 16:04
What Bill said - fire the client.
I've done this before - I finish the work to a point, then cancel the rest of the contract based on a clause in my usual contract.
I try not to waste my time.
Bottom line when consulting is you should be getting good returns on your time, not wasting time.
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1462
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 17:28
"Web Guy" is the bane of my life! he makes baby Jesus cry, and I love the "accounting guy" counter. Cheers for the read G1
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 2008-Feb-26 19:04
Things get sticky when the client says his Web Guy insists the key is Meta Tags. The client doesn't realize that even talking to you proclaims the Web Guy's theory is false.
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10437
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Posted: 2008-Feb-27 21:37
More on a related topic. Getting management buy-in to new ideas:
[link]
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2008-Feb-28 17:06
[link]
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1462
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Posted: 2008-Feb-28 17:17
mj, you only posted half a link
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2008-Feb-28 23:23
they changed it
what they had before was even better
it went to a page that said your connection to the database has failed and some other things, it was not the standard page but it was pretty funny,
this is good to, I'll post again
9 Signs You Shouldn't Hire THAT Web Guy
[link]
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needtoknow
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
# Posts: 10
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Posted: 2008-Apr-09 00:37
Don't you think that part of the problem is that some consultants are just too desperate to get the work at all costs that they refuse to tell the client the cold truth?
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2008-Apr-10 18:23
that could be the case for some...
but sorry - no - no desperation around my neck of the wood.
Truth is that my client have to go through a pretty strict entry examination before they are even considered for the privilege of experiencing my services. Then, if they don't behave themselves really well they are fired (like others have said). I originally posted because sometimes on the way to firing them it can become a little exasperating...
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zorag
Joined: Sep 05, 2008
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2008-Sep-05 19:31
Totally agree, a bit of veting right from the beginning to way up the scenario saves a lot of crap later on! Because sometimes no amount of money is worth getting your blood pressure to boiling point!
And is the client always right? No, and they need to be told that first off too in this game otherwise your making your life even more complicated than it already is.
I've had a few scenarios in the past where the client has returned to me and asked why his/her site isn't successful or isn't receiving the traffic they thought it would have generated. I've even been blamed for loss of earnings by one disgruntled site owner who was looking for an escape goat for his failings to promote the site after launch - he thought the traffic would flow into his music/band site after I designed it with absolutely no promo - talk about wet behind the ears..
But the client NEEDS to hear that someone is in the driving seat, in especially the "web guy" so that there's respect for our input and so that he knows where he sits in the food chain - eh!
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2008-Sep-05 20:15
I have several ways of approaching this
I have two pricing models,
I can do what you want, or...
I can do what you need.
for example, what you need is 10k what you want is 20k,
I also requier them to turn over full authority for the website to me, they na make suggestions, i have the last word.
If I am the consultant, I am the authority, if I am just doing what they want, I walk because If they knew how to do it, they could do it themselves and they don't need me. So then they are stuck because lets face it, they cannot do it themselves.
what they want and what they need are too different things
I also do not guarantee success on any level as there are too many factors out side of my control, everything is performed on a best efforts basis based on my experience and knowledge, NOT THE CLIENTS.
clients are best to do what they do best, not building and marketing websites.
also, i do not explain, teach, or defend myself.
I also share some case histories with them
one client did his own site, he did 774.00 is sales in 2 years, he had a nationally syndicated talk radio show, what a great marketing vehicle, I took over the site and at the end of the first year with me it did 1.2 million
I just did another 5 months ago, 1k in sales per month, they did the site themselves, now, 5 months later its at 20k per month and climbing.
i did not teach or explain or defend, i just did the work
[ Message was edited by: mj1256 09/05/2008 02:36 pm ]
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